Born in Coventry, England in 1959, Martin Atkins first received exposure as the drummer for John Lydon's-a.k.a. Johnny Rotten-post-Sex Pistols band, Public Image Ltd., or "PiL." The group debuted on Christmas Day, 1978 and took the U.K. by storm, offering up a new style of music and bridging the gap between punk and mod. For Atkins, though, it was just the beginning.

Shortly after leaving the band in 1985, he formed industrial supergroup Pigface out of a desire to make collaboration easier on like-minded artists. Over the next decade, he played in Killing Joke, Ministry and collaborated with pioneers of the industrial movement, including Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor.

All the while, his independent label, Invisible Records, was quickly carving out a healthy niche in the world of electronic rock. The Music Phone Book spoke with Atkins about what it takes to run a successful record label, his advice for aspiring musicians and the state of technology in music.

Music Phone Book: Why did you start your own record label in the first place?

Martin Atkins: It was a direct reaction to my time with Public Image Ltd. when Johnny Rotten was doing everything to be different from any other band. To a large extent he succeeded, but in many ways we were just another band on another label with another. manifesto, you know?

MPB: What was it like to be such an influential part of the industrial and EBM movement over the last 20 years? Do you ever reflect on what it meant to be there in that time and place?

Atkins: No, to be honest, when I was in Chicago-in Ministry and Pigface-it just reminded me of the excitement of being in Public Image Ltd.; playing to 11,000 people in L.A. or destroying American Bandstand in 1980. It was kind of like, 'hey, there's that feeling again, that's cool.'

MPB: Have you enjoyed working with so many talented musicians on your label?

Atkins: Well, yeah, I'm always happy to work with charismatic, inspiring people. If I'm going to help anybody get from A to B, it's great to find people who are energized. Then the help that we give them seems to be worth ten times more. One of things we've gotten better at in the last few years is choosing who we should help. It's our efforts plus their efforts-one plus one equals eleven. There are some bands out there who give out massive amounts of negative energy. You realize-when you're sober-that some bands are built to fail.

MPB: Did you have a problem with alcoholism?

Atkins: I guess I did. I'm frightened enough not to experiment-ten years later with a record label, a wife, two children and a third on the way. I'm frightened enough not to pretend that I don't.

MPB: How did your transition from being a drummer to being a producer and heading your own label come about?

Atkins: Initially, we spent so much time in the studio. We were in some fantastic studios with P.I.L. We used to just hang out at the Townhouse, which is where Phil Collins and Queen used to record. We'd go there late at night for the overnight sessions. Experimenting in studios like that-talk about luxury. It just felt natural [to progress] to producing and arranging.

MPB: What's the state of industrial music these days?

Atkins: Well, my background is heavy rock before 1976 and punk rock. Then punk rock became the new experimental platform and launched itself into reggae and dub. Then that became industrial music. To me, industrial hit a wall. Most of it now is just being absorbed into the mainstream. Tool, A Perfect Circle, Garbage-all these bands use cutting-edge computer technology which was a trademark of the industrial movement 15 years ago. We used samplers live onstage to trigger different drum sounds and now that's standard operating procedure in the studio. The elements that defined industrial-electronics and samplers-are a part of everyday studio technique now.

MPB: What do you think about the price of technology dropping and bands being able to use ProTools in their basements to record an album?

Atkins: It's great when the platform is wide-open. I remember when drum machines came out in 1977 or whenever it was and people said to me, 'Well that's it, Martin, it's over for you.' All drum machines have done-really, if you think about it-is increase the value of [live] drumming. Interesting, unique expression. It underlines what is really important about music-ideas. It's never been about technology, it's been about the ideas. Good albums have been made on appalling equipment and appalling albums have been made on state-of-the-art equipment. It's about ideas and vibe. You could give every band in the world every piece of technology ever made, and it wouldn't make a shitty band with no ideas [suddenly] have ideas. Sometimes it's actually a lack of technology that creates a great album.

MPB: What's the key to running a successful record label?

Atkins: Well, I teach a class at Columbia University in Chicago called "The Business of Touring." I had a couple of accounting students in there who were just taking the class for some kind of requirement. I focused my business brain and threw up a couple of spreadsheets and showed these accountant guys how you can change the daily income on a tour by not doing anything. By manipulating the logistics, you can change the daily outcome. I think it's having an understanding of accounting and key business issues, but also understanding that in the music business and art, it's the in-between stuff that shouldn't happen. Those things have a poetry to them and defy the logic of accounting. That's why the major labels don't get it. The laws of major labels have to do with machine-gunning the side of a barn door. In the laws governing independent music, it's ultra-niche marketing and we have to make it count.

MPB: What kind of pointers would you give to local bands trying to make it in this business?

Atkins: Managers are a bad idea for a band. A band is much better off with a good friend who works hard and helps them drive, who sells T-shirts, who buys a drink for the underpaid sound guy, who keeps an eye on the door. You're much better off with a person like that. You have to remember that your band and your music is the most important thing to you and your band. It might be somewhat important to other people, but it will never be the most important thing to other people. You've got to stay on it. Never fully give the reigns to someone else, and if you do, make sure there are some checks and balances in place. It's a massive amount of work. Another piece of advice I'd give to a young band is to tell everybody in the band to get three jobs now. Because once you start the tour, you'll chew through all the savings you have. The difference between making it and not making it could be that extra money to play one more show or get yourself onto a bigger tour to play with a bigger audience.